the new lincoln-douglas.

today found me having a bold and unnecessary political tit-a-tit with a dude i don't know in the comments section of a fb video my friend sullivan posted from back when she worked on the obama campaign. was it pointless? yes. but it made me feel good inside, like, for several years there i lost the ability to picture myself substantively agreeing with those in power, and likewise i couldn't imagine republicanites whining about how no one listens to them; but now here we are, and i tell ya it's satisfying to hear a well-spoken republican unable to construct a noncircular argument.

Dominic J. Whitham

Thank God. We're now on the road to socialism. Thanks guys. Way to go. After our government owns the banks, GM, and Chrysler, and takes more and more of our money by taxing us to death, won't you be happier? Please...if you're intelligent...attend and support as many TEA parties as you can. And, please, if we're still able to Vote in 2012, elect a President that doesn't have a far leftist-progressive agenda.

Mark Huntsman

are you...your taxes are going up, mr whitman? mine just went down last month. please be careful; i'm worried you're going to choke on your rhetoric.

Dominic J. Whitham

When there's over 9 trillion dollars in debt, someone is going to have to pay for it plus interest! Our kids will still be paying off this debt 20 years from now. So yes, someone will have to pay for it. I'm sure that someone will include myself and other entrepreneurs who are really the backbone of our economy. The more that we're taxed, the less we have to spend. That's just simple economics. If you make a 100k a year, and 35k has to go to pay taxes to the Fed, that's a net of only 65k.

As a small business owner, factor in having to pay for family health insurance at $650 / month, and other overhead expensives, and you can quickly see that ANY tax increase will kill the business. I've known for a long time that when they talk about taxes, it's not just about the Fed tax, it's about State, County, and Local taxes as well. Not to mention license plate fees, city stickers, toll roads, and all the taxes we pay for things like gasoline, electricity, and even telephone taxes.

Dominic J. Whitham

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against paying taxes for a strong defense, infrastructure, and some services. However, I am against wasteful spending in congress of our hard earned tax dollars. And at this point, our economy is so fragile, I doubt that many Americans can absorb an increase in their taxes without creating a financial burden that they simply cannot afford. At some point, a small businessman (such as myself) would have to consider whether it's better to just close up shop and get a 45k / year job instead.

Mark Huntsman

that's all well said. i just don't get why you'd want to wreck your argument by tying it to "elect a President that doesn't have a far leftist-progressive agenda"? last dude added $4.97 trillion to our debt, which is, you know, about half. not counting billions of dubloons pilfered from the social security surplus (every president has done that since the surplus was implemented under reagan, but still, it's money we're obligated to pay ourselves later).

Dominic J. Whitham

I'd have to say that as a republican, I was very disappointed by some Bush policies. First and foremost was immigration and not closing the border. 2nd was spending. Of course, wars cost a lot of money. I won't debate whether we needed to go to war in Iraq, but Bush did take the fight to the terrorists and protected us against another attack for 7 years. I'm sure that will be his lasting legacy. However, that said, the whole "blame Bush for everything" is getting very old and tired. And soon, that won't wash anymore, even with Obama supporters. At some point, Mr. Obama will be held accountable for his failures, just as other President's have been held accountable for theirs. Also, let's not forget that it was a Democratic-controlled congress for the last 2 years of his Presidency that helped spend all that money.

Dominic J. Whitham

But here's the real point. If you disagree with the previous administration's spending policies, then you must disagree EVEN MORE with the current President's (and Congress') policies. Two wrongs don't make a right. This out of control spending frenzy can only lead to the downfall of our economy. If you wanted to really stimulate the economy, then take that 800 billion dollars and cut a check to every American citizen! Roughly that's $4,000 per person or probably $16,000 per household. That surely beats spending all that money on pet pork projects. Every American family balances their own budget. Shouldn't we expect Congress to do the same? Remember, THEY work for US, it's not the other way around.

Mark Huntsman

that's some nice footwork. you're not disillusioned with your party? 5 trillion dollars in 8yrs. half. your party cut taxes, increased spending. i get that the drum you like to beat is taxes. i see what you dislike but see nothing to like.

Dominic J. Whitham

It's not footwork, it's the truth. No, I'm not "disillusioned" with the Republican party...not at all. I know that most liberals want to believe that most conservatives are disillusioned by their party, but quite to the contrary, we are more dedicated and supportive of the party than ever before. It's not just about taxes...believe me, there are many, many issues that we conservatives will be bringing to the forefront before the next election. And it's not just the snare drum that we'll be hitting, it's the double-kick bass, symbols, and toms, all in unison.

Mark Huntsman
you may well be more dedicated, but there's less of you.

that's a lot of percussion parts to hit in unison. regardless, with a fully outfitted drumset of lower taxes for the top and pricy wars and the sanctity of marriage and trimmed-down social services and deregulated markets, you and the r's will be in good shape. oh, wait.

Dominic J. Whitham

It's a difficult situation. The media bias and political correctness have engrained in many minds across this country that anyone who attempts to have a thoughtful debate on politics, whether at work, at a bar, or at the dinner table, is looked upon with scorn and contempt. Recently, while trying to have a political debate with an acquaintance in a quite informal setting (at a bar), his final statement to me was to call me a racist because I didn't like Obama. Yes, I was actually called a racist just because I spout conservative values. I welcome any open discussion on politics. However, what I see many times is that many liberals have closed their minds. They simply refuse to listen to other points of view. And when confronted with a common sense approach to the issues, they often use the old tactic of diversion. They point to Bush. They change the subject. They simply refuse to LISTEN.

Mark Huntsman

i'm not changing the subject; if anything i'm staying the subject. when you make the case that taxes are too high and my response is to say that your guy doubled our debt, that's not diversion, dude, that's me inquiring how you maintain support for a party that put us on an untenable track, got beat, and has yet to offer a mildly new idea about how to go forward. if r's need to sulk a while longer and try to figure things out, fine; but if you insist on snarling while licking your wounds you'll only bite yourself in the foot.

Dominic J. Whitham

I believe that America is good and is a symbol of hope and freedom in a troubled world.

I believe that the American Family is the backbone of our nation.

I believe in having a strong national defense.

I believe that if you break the law, you pay the price. The term "illegal" means illegal. Just because it has the world "alien" after it, doesn't mean that they're not here ILLEGALLY. I believe in a good education for our American citizens--those who came here legally.

I believe in a secure border for the protection of our citizens. There's nothing wrong with LEGAL immigration, to be sure, and unless you're native american, we are all here as a result of generations of LEGAL immigrants to this country.

I believe that the government works for me. They answer to me, I don't answer to them.

Dominic J. Whitham Thank you, Mark, for proving my point. The subject isn't JUST taxes. The subject is many issues. Now, you hope to drag me into your continued discussion on taxes and debt. But again, two wrongs don't make a right. If Bush did these things (please factor into your calculations that Bush had 9/11 to deal with and fighting a war on two fronts), and you didn't like that, then how could you like the fact that your guy along with the Democratic congress has passed the largest spending bill ever, as well as the largest budget?

Change for the sake of change is not good enough. Stop lying to yourself that we have no new ideas. What's wrong with the principals that our country was founded on? It's worked for over 200 years. Now the progressives want to come in and destroy everything we've worked, fought, and died for in this country.

Dominic J. Whitham

Understand that I don't think along party lines. I don't vote for someone or something just because they're in my party. My convictions, beliefs, and principles guide my rational when I vote. However, that said, there is NOTHING in the progressive democratic party that I believe in. So, let's be honest, say there's an issue in the democratic party that YOU don't agree with. Would you still vote that way, anyway? Would you still vote for THAT democrat even if you didn't agree with their stance on a certain issue?

Let's get one thing straight here...the democratic party has given in to the far left wing agenda, and most certainly is moving towards a 100% government controlled society. The repulican party is currently being accused of "moving too far to the right". How rediculous! We're just holding on to our convictions whilst the left-wing media tries to destroy the party by convincing America that it no longer represents us. That is a lie.

Mark Huntsman

i believe it's been a long time since i constructed i statements, and it sounds almost fun.

i remember the last time i did it, shortly afer college, when i wanted to pump myself up enough to break up with my girlfriend.

i was kind of a pansy. self-esteem was an issue.

i recall that once we got into the conversation, they didn't help at all, and because i was unwilling to drop the one that would have settled the matter

--i don't love you anymore--

i got bound up in this drawn-out disintegration process that only gradually made me despise myself enough to end it and move away.

i'd say you don't have to be like the 23yo me. your party mocks the possibility of empathy in government; you remain with it even as it compassionlessly kills your credibility.

find a new girlfriend.

Dominic J. Whitham

Ahhh...personal attacks. Confirmation that the liberal debator has been beat. Thank you. Find a new girlfriend? I've been happily MARRIED for 16 years.